Six bassoons later: what I've learned, where I'm at.

"Sometimes you do things in life just to figure out what you don't want to do in life."  - My Dad

The same principle can obviously be applied to trying bassoons in the pursuit of finding The One.  

All of the instruments I have trialed have strengths and weaknesses.  For the price you would pay for each of them, my feeling is that they are all priced quite reasonably and all sit in the $17,000 - $24,000 range.  

The Moosmann 222-CL, Leitzinger Model II, and Kronwalt are all solid instruments.  If you are in the market for a bassoon be sure to try these bassoons - they have a lot to offer!  However, they are not right for me and the goals I have set for this process.  They are also all thick wall bassoons.  

This has been the most important realization I have made during this process:  The instrument I need for the sound I desire and the type of playing I do falls within the capabilities of a "thin wall" instrument: the Yamaha 811 & 821 and the Moosmann 150E have presented as the best options for my needs.

Thin wall bassoons are typically associated or  modeled after the much sought after Heckel pre-war sound.  Not every manufacturer carries or even identifies with thin or thick wall bassoons.  Also, these identifiers are relative and vary with regard to actual measurements.  However, there are clear differences in how these instruments play - whether the manufacturer chooses to identify them as thick/thin or not.

Thin Wall vs. Thick Wall

Below is a great graphic and explanation from the Yamaha website:

A bassoon with walls of regular thickness has a rich sound, with a high degree of flexibility that can easily produce sound with a soloistic, song-like and expressive quality. More power is required when playing a bassoon made with heavy, thick walls, but its sound has a uniquely solemn, dark quality, and is particularly suited to orchestral performances.
Standard wall thickness YFG-811 (left), and thick wall YFG-812 (right)
Standard wall thickness YFG-811 (left), and thick wall YFG-812 (right)


What on EARTH does this word mean to bassoonists and why do we use it to describe the abilities of instruments that are very different from each other?

Flexibility of pitch

Flexibility of sound

Here is what I have learned after reading and re-reading descriptions of these instruments by the manufacturers, vendors, and players then pairing those thoughts with my own experience playing these instruments and chatting with other players as well:

Flexibility in a bassoon is the ability of the instrument to make changes in pitch with ease.  For example, in chamber music, if the player wants to match quickly to another's tendency, can the pitch be adjusted quickly and with ease.  It does not refer to the overall pitch being unstable.

Flexibility also refers to the instrument's ability to play in different timbres (bright or dark) across all ranges and dynamics.  

When you read manufacturer's descriptions they use flexibility to describe both thick and thin wall instruments.  This is partly why it's confusing to a buyer, novice or experienced.  

I think these concepts have been elusive in my own understanding because I play a Fox 601, thick wall bassoon, and I do not find it flexible in these ways.  Concepts of flexibility are foreign (even confusing) to me because I haven't experienced it in 10 years of playing on a thick wall instrument.  The thick wall models are built for power, projection - read every instrument description from every manufacturer for a thick wall instrument - and consistency (wherever it may lay, it's not budging), a bassoon built for the large orchestra.

From the Fox website, notice what word is missing from this description of the 601 model:


Whereas thin wall instruments are flexible and capable of projection through clarity of tone rather than through power.  I would describe the word power as quantity and speed of air used to create volume.  They also have flexibility of pitch (from what I have now experienced) and flexibility of sound.  It's a very different approach to building and playing an instrument.  

As I reflect upon my own playing and use of a thick-wall instrument, I realize now how I landed upon a 601 as my best choice 10 years ago and why I now want something drastically different.  For a young bassoonist who wants a huge sound, the 601 (and any thick wall bassoon) is a total blast to play!  Performing with the Chinook Winds quintet, laying foundation for 4 powerhouse solo players, my 601 was fantastic!  Prior to that, playing in Army bands, free-lancing, graduate school; again, the sheer power available to me was perfection!  I listen back to all my recordings from that time period and I love what I hear.  My sound, my style of playing make sense in context.

Then everything changed...

I had a major back surgery that required my abdomen to be cut vertically for 8 inches.  My recovery was long and my playing as a result has changed.  I feel this in how I generate vibrato across all ranges, how much physical work is required to project into a hall and in the work required to create tapers that can compete with the most nuanced clarinet player.  I also recognize the physical demands required by a thick wall instrument have become more challenging simply because I'm older.  I have battled 4 back surgeries in addition to neck and shoulder issues.  

As I have moved from full-time performance into higher education, I do more solo playing now.  My quintet dynamic has also changed from full-time work with 4 young, powerhouse players.  Now playing in a university faculty quintet means very intermittent periods of rehearsal and performance - some semesters there is almost none.  The change in personalities and playing style has required me to be a very different player.  

Currently, I play principal only with a community orchestra (Idaho Falls Symphony) rather than with salaried/tenured regional orchestras (Great Falls, Billings).  This requires more delicacy and (here it comes) flexibility to blend well and provide what is needed.  I have also been playing second bassoon consistently for 3 seasons now (second to a Heckel 6000) - something I have never done before and an entirely different skill set!

All of this explains why I have easily gravitated towards the thin-wall models during this process.

There is however one caveat.  

In my last blog post, I stated the desire to have an instrument that could handle a huge sound when needed - something I felt the 6000 Heckel I played on couldn't quite deliver (of course I could be wrong).  I hear the greatest potential for this very specific ability in the Yamaha models.  The Moosmann 150E is lovely to play, so easy in the bottom octave, so stable and responsive in the top octave - really impressive!  But I also hear, and have received confirmation from my oboe colleague, that the Moosmann doesn't push out like my Fox does and it was missed in performance.

Now what?

Many thanks to Justin Miller and Midwest Musical Imports, I have been permitted to keep the Yamaha 821 and Moosmann 150EDLX for an extra long trial.  I am taking them to Seattle for a 7-day residency with Trio de Bois and a concert with the Ensign Symphony and Chorus onstage at Benaroya Hall.  This next week will reveal a lot about what these instrument can offer and how they will/will not meet the goals I have set for this process.

In addition, as I have gained even greater clarity and wisdom from this process, I am setting up trials on a few more bassoons before I make a final decision: Fox 460, Puchner 6000, maybe a Fox 680.  I am trying to find a newer Fox 201 and any and all Heckels - both are really hard to come by.  I was on the waitlist for a Benson Bell but, not surprising, it was purchased before it got to me.  

The journey continues!  Be sure to check out my YT channel for more comparison videos of instruments.  



  1. Thanks for the extensive reviews along with sharing the focus of your efforts.

  2. Very interested in hearing about your final choice :)

  3. What is the extra key in the left hand thumb area, below the low B and Bb keys?

    1. That is an alternate low C key. It gives your thumb position another option. I can't say I have ever used it but many are fond of it as an option.

  4. Hi, I’m currently looking for a quality bassoon for a teen that could be used into adulthood/ college at least, and am scouring for as much info and advice as possible. They currently rent a Renard 222 but we are having to return it.
    I’m happy to have found your blog here, and have a couple of questions…
    Why do you say you’re looking for a newer Fox 201, is there something different/better than a 1970’s model?
    I think I’ve narrowed the brands to Fox/Renard 240 220 260 460 201, Puchner (not sure on model), Moosmann (not sure on model)…do you have any input on these choices based on our needs and a $10k budget?
    Thank you.

    1. Glad this post was helpful! I was looking for newer 201 just as a comparison. I ended up selecting the Fox 201 from 1968 which I had rebuilt at Fox and then sold off. My main bassoon now is a Moosmann 150E which I love playing on. I have had 2 students purchase Moosmann bassoons as well and I am extremely impressed with them - great for students and into professional use. As far as a specific model, it depends on whether they want thin or thick wall playing (which I describe in this post). That's a completely subjective choice. Beyond that, the differences in models are in the keywork: how many rollers do you want, trill keys, etc. For your budget, I highly recommend the Moosmann and Fox bassoon lines. You really can't go wrong with either. Good luck and feel free to email me with more questions at:


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